Police shooting innocent civilians

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Mike G
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So now there is no dash cam,

So now there is no dash cam, there was a dash cam but now there is no dash cam. or They were never deployed if they had them, or it was not turned on if they had them. Seems simply stating same at the beginning of this would have been good.

We have a good old fashion race riot, perfect for those who believe that the LEOs are there to serve and protect their community.

Western civilization is now gone from Ferguson as it is in other vast areas of America's urban ghettos. It could disappear from an area where you live sooner than you think when the thin Blue Line disappears.

Like Watertown, Jeffersonian

thejohnchapman
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Mike, I never heard it

Mike, I never heard it reported from any authoritative source that there WAS a dash cam. It was always an assumption by people thousands of miles away.

Riddle: How many people asking, begging or threatening to see the dash video does it take to make the video exist?

Answer: The existence of a physical or digital object is independent to the number of those who speculate about its existence. There is no number that will create such a thing.

thejohnchapman
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By the way, there are a

By the way, there are a number of Maine jurisdictions in which they lack dash cameras. Money buys them. There isn't a lot extra kicking around. now.

Tom C
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You know, when I think about

You know, when I think about it, when I was 18 years old and living on the streets of Boston, I had, at various times, been beaten up, gotten black eyes and fat lips, even had a knife pulled on me, and gotten a gun stuck in my ribs a time or two. No one got killed.

Anyway, remember wjhen it was the job of police to make the public fell safe?

Not anymore. Now it is the job of the public to make the police feel safe, regardless of how much terror the citizens have to go through to assure that:

. Money buys them. There isn't a lot extra kicking around. now.

But, for some reason Lisbon, Maine has enough money to put a patrol officer on Route 196 Sunday morning in a $30,000 SUV handing out tickets to those dangerous people going to church in the morning. Oddly, rolling into the 25MPH zone at 37 mph if you miss the sign poses about no threat to the public safety, but that doesn't prevent the Lisbon Police Department (nickname: "The Speed Trap of Maine") from speed-trapping motorists.

I think the public would be better served if the officer would stay home Sunday morning, or at least stop the drunks rolling through town on Saturday night. This is policeing for the sake of the police, not the public.

I think these departments could easily cut out plenty.

thejohnchapman
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Tom, if the store video is

Tom, if the store video is accurate, and it is in fact Brown doing the strongarm robbery, aren't we all a little safer if such a fellow is brought to justice? I have no idea yet whose set of facts actually is accurate, though the "balance of perjury" in the media seems tipping in favor of the officer lately.

With that said, do you see the same thing happening with this case as happened with GZ's case? I'm loathe to forbid anyone from shooting a larger attacker who is in the process of breaking their skull. We shouldn't allow robbers to kill cops to get away, should we?

Bruce Libby
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Actually that is 12 over

Actually that is 12 over limit , it is close to a criminal speeding level.
But it is ridiculous only to those they don't run into.

Mike G
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TJC

TJC

When this shooting first happened a police spokesmen said they were not going to release any videos until all witnesses were interviewed. This so as not to skew the investigation.

Now I guess I assumed that they had official videos of the shooting, I didn't realize they were talking about a possible street view from Google Earth

Bruce Libby
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No Mike think Obama phone

No Mike think Obama phone video !

Rebecca
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I listened to what Sharpton

I listened to what Sharpton had to say at the funeral. Actually I listened to the part where he chastised the black community for their decent into relevant meaninglessness by their criminal actions. The fact that they strive to demean themselves and their families due to government dependencies and failing to understand that the only ones who can lift them out of poverty and desperation are them themselves. That no one is going to do it for them. This is a truism for everyone of any color or condition. Now, I am no Sharpton fan but sometimes he does make sense.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/25/youve-lost-where-you-come-fro...

Tom C
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TJC, I don't have a lot of

TJC, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this fellow Brown, he falls outside of "innocent citizens conducting lawful activity killed by police." If you do stupid things, you usually win stupid prizes.

That said - the use of deadly force should be subject to extra scrutiny. The taking of a life should be a matter of very last resort. A black eye, split lip or even fractured jaw is not sufficient justification to kill, regardless of the inflammatory descriptions that may arise. However, in this case my sense of the matter is that the outcome will favor the officer.

As far as who should be "removed from the streets", I have no desire to have to pick and choose just who those folks might be.

With that said, do you see the same thing happening with this case as happened with GZ's case?

The similarity is that this is a political matter, not a true criminal matter, and facts be damned. Do some research on New York Times reporter (and former Miami Herald reporter) Frances Robles. The fix is in.

thejohnchapman
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Mike:

Mike:

I have seen a (purported) video interview of a citizen witness. I understand there may be several citizen videos. There are other sources of video, actual and potential, than "taken by government official" and "google earth". The brief transcript posted within this thread is taken from a video recording (with audio) of a conversation with someone who says they witnessed the event.

Tom, if someone much, much larger gets close enough to you to beat you senseless, they can then take your gun and kill you. In the alternative, they can simply repeat the process by which they made you incapacitated in the first place. Nobody, not police, not private citizens, are required to wait until they are about to go out (though my client Zach Curtis did).

Homicides, even negligent ones, are subject to extra scrutiny. Only three departments in Maine are certified to investigate them, and all are under the jurisdiction of the AGs office, not the DAs. The US District Court has said, in a couple of opinions, that they look at cases differently where the subject is dead. It is one of the three reasons I teach my students, private and LEO, it is better if the attacker survives.

Watcher
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From Drudge Report:

From Drudge Report:
1. More Obozo officials at Browns funeral than were at Margaret Thatcher's funeral
2. Not one Obozo rep at Foley's memorial mass
3. Obozo's IRS lied about Lerner's emails. They exist and are available.

Not a day goes by that Obozo does not lie to, insult or otherwise subject Americans to his brand of thuggery.

Mike G
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That said - the use of deadly

That said - the use of deadly force should be subject to extra scrutiny. The taking of a life should be a matter of very last resort. A black eye, split lip or even fractured jaw is not sufficient justification to kill, regardless of the inflammatory descriptions that may arise. However, in this case my sense of the matter is that the outcome will favor the officer

ditto

It is apparent from not only this incident but from the many other cases of shootings and beatings from LEOs across this nation that "contempt of cop" has a punishment dependent on the officer at the time. Society has reached the point where, we accept such punishment from those in the blue line, in fact, apparently we expect it.

Don't Question Authority unless you want your teeth kicked in or end up dead. Don't Question Authority unless you want to be audited by the IRS, investigated by the FBI, arrested jailed etc or found dead in a park after being unrolled from a rug.

It is the same old tune, played throughout history, at this point do we expect it to change for the better? Should we just accept it? How short is the march to what we have seen in history?

thejohnchapman
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Video interview re the
Gerald Weinand
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In Louisiana, the victims

In Louisiana, the victims shoot themselves.

Despite sitting in the back of a police car with their hands cuffed behind their back. Miraculous!

Cop Said Handcuffed Prisoner Shot Himself In Back; Autopsy Shows Entrance Wound In Chest

Bruce Libby
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PIA alert!

PIA alert!

Tom C
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It's all fun and games until

It's all fun and games until the video shows up,,,

A week after a Salisbury pastor teamed up with the NAACP to express concerns about police mistreatment, WBTV has obtained video that contradicts the pastor's statements.

Video obtained after pastor, NAACP claim police mistreatment

thejohnchapman
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Gerald, where were the

Gerald, where were the subject's hands when he was found? It is a pretty common phenomenon that many slender people can draw their hands to the front when handcuffed in the back.

I don't purport to have direct knowledge of this shooting. I just have personal experience with exactly this ability.

Bruce Libby
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Not only common, but

Not only common, but Peerless and Smith & Wesson make very strong cuffs ,they hurt like hell when one is assaulted with them ,
thus extremely dangerous.

Tom C
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A staffer on the long-running

A staffer on the long-running television crime show Cops was shot and killed Tuesday night, reportedly by gunfire from local police, while videotaping an armed robbery in progress in Omaha, Nebraska,

'Cops' Crew Member Killed by Officers While Show Films Armed Robbery

Tragic, but I'd guess standing with a boom mike near hyped-up cops unloading their service weapons might make one a bullet magnet.

More than 30 shots were fired, all by officers. No officers were injured.

Mike G
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spray and pray Tom its the

spray and pray Tom its the new technique of LEOs

Tom C
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They left the critical DVR

They left the critical DVR and hard drive in Costco's control for five days, allowing Costco-Summerlin personnel and the store’s IT contractor to tamper with video data. Five days after the shooting, Metro detectives finally decided to pick up one Costco DVR. After valiant attempts to “recover” critical imagery, the DVR was sent to the U.S. Secret Service’s Los Angeles office, where forensics experts examined it. The experts later testified that 96 percent of the DVR’s data were recovered. The four percent not recoverable just happened to encompass the time Erik was in Costco, as well as the fatal officer-involved shooting.

http://erikbscottmemorialblog.blogspot.com/

There can be no doubt that this was a deliberate attempt to cover up the police murder of Eric Scott.

Mike G
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Tom

Tom

Good link, gives spray and pray more meaning. Glad I don't hunt with any cops.

Tom C
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Surveillance video from an

Surveillance video from an Ohio Walmart shows that a man fatally shot by police earlier this month had his back to officers and was talking on a cell phone, an attorney for the man's family says.

Attorney Michael Wright said that the video, which he was allowed to view with the man's family, contradicts statements by police and witnesses that Crawford ignored commands to drop the gun and “looked like he was going to go violently.”

. He said the 22-year-old father of two was shot "on sight" in a "militaristic" response by police.

Cops Who Killed John Crawford III At Ohio Walmart Shot Him 'On Sight': Attorney

Well, I haven't seen the video, but the victims attorney here seems to be making a very strong, definiative statement that the video could either support or discount.

Anyway, this particular story would have played out very differently if there was no video. That's why it's important for police to impound and destroy any video of questionable actions. Once the get a witness or two that will back up their story, as they did in the Erik Scott case, then when the video is out of the picture, they are effectively impervious to any liability or prosecution.

Rebecca
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This look interesting. Can

assaultrevolver.jpeg

This look interesting. Can someone tell me where I can find one? CBS certainly wouldn't LIE about something like this. Would they?

Tom C
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Well, if the cops aren't

SWAT Team Surrounds White Male Carrying 'Large Umbrella' on Campus

Notice the intrepid public servant with the rifle pointed at the citizen, one nervous tic away from blowing the poor fellow's brains out. I wonder what the camo shorts are for? I suggest a psychological evaluation might be in order.

Well, if the cops aren't killing innocent citizens while blowing away people with airsoft guns, they are terrorizing and endangering citizens going about regular activity.

Mike G
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http://www.nydailynews.com

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/georgia-teen-holding-wii-remote...

While perusing Tom's link for the sixfoot tall penquin shooter, the above link popped up.

I'm beginning to think that open carry is not a good idea, for LEOs that is.

Tom C
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That was an interesting case.

That was an interesting case. Cops bang on the door to serve a warrant on the kid's dad. The kid says "Who is it?", gets no answer and opens the door holding a video game controller in his hand. Cop panics and blows the kid away.

Turns out the cop had a history of pulling her gun on at least one other innocent civilian when she panicked. Got fired from her last job, and was involved in 4 car crashes over 2 years. The original police reports were lies about the kid "pulling a gun on the officer" and devolved over the next few days to "a tragic mistake". Tragic for the kid - that's for sure, but the officers went home safe that night!.

But she got off - although her negligence and stupidity killed an innocent 17 year old kid who was doing nothing wrong. Because she was wearing the magic blue suit - there's no responsibility!

"Qualified" immunity? How about "almost absolute immunity"?

Tom C
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Here's another citizen one

Here's another citizen one nervous tic (either his or one of the cops') from getting blown away:

Dangerous prank prompts SWAT team raid on gamer — and it’s all caught on video

I just don't feel safer with these clowns "protecting" me.

Abacus
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Because she was wearing the

Because she was wearing the magic blue suit - there's no responsibility! ~Tom C

Speaking of the magic blue suit....

Deputy kills cyclist in bicycle lane because he was ANSWERING (actually typing) an e-mail on his laptop while he was driving....and faces no charges because it was 'workplace related'.

So it's completely within the law for the police to kill people negligently.

"He was responding to a deputy who was inquiring whether the fire investigation had been completed,’ the letter from the prosecutor’s office stated. ‘Since Wood was acting within the course and scope of his duties when he began to type his response, under Vehicle Code section 23123.5, he acted lawfully."

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